Sunday, July 19, 2020

Shimano Ultegra R8000 vs 105 R7000: 11 Speed Cassette

A quick comparison of the Ultegra R8000 cassette versus the 105 R7000 cassette. Both are 11 speed cassettes of the same generation, let's see what are the differences that justifies the different in price and weight.

Note that the cassettes are of different gear ratios, so it is not possible to compare it accurately. The Ultegra cassette has a 11-30T range, while the 105 cassette has a slightly smaller 11-28T range.

For a detailed comparison of the previous generation of Ultegra vs 105 cassettes, check out this link. It is much more detailed and most of the similarities and differences apply here as well. There are lots of other comparisons for other bike components, such as cranksets, brake calipers, etc.

Weight of R8000 11-30T cassette is 270 grams.

Weight of R7000 11-28T cassette is almost the same, at 271 grams.

If the 105 R7000 cassette was the larger 11-30T gear ratio, it will add some weight to it, compared to the smaller 11-28T gear combination.

Ultegra CS-R8000 11-30T: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-30
105 CS-R7000 11-28T: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28

As you can see, the difference in sprocket sizes is only the last 3 sprockets. The 105 R7000 cassette has 3 sprockets that are smaller than Ultegra R8000 cassette, which helps to keep the weight down. If these 3 sprockets on the R7000 are the same larger 24-27-30 teeth sizes, it will be more than the current 271 grams.

Claimed weight from Shimano website:
Dura-Ace R9100 11-28T: 193 grams
Ultegra R8000 11-28T: 251 grams (+58 grams)
105 R7000 11-28T: 284 grams (+33 grams)

Dura-Ace R9100 11-30T: 211 grams
Ultegra R8000 11-30T: 269 grams (+58 grams)
105 R7000 11-30T: 304 grams (+35)

There seems to be a roughly 33-35 grams weight difference between Ultegra and 105, given the same gear combination. It is just enough to make a difference, yet it is not a lot as well.

However, the difference between Dura-Ace and Ultegra is quite big, at 58 grams. This is mainly due to the titanium sprockets used for the largest 5 sprockets on the Dura-Ace cassette. That is also why it costs a lot more than the Ultegra cassette. Check out a detailed Dura-Ace R9100 vs Ultegra R8000 cassette comparison here.

Exploded view of the 105 R7000 cassette. Only 1 aluminium spider is used for the last 3 gears, as compared to the Ultegra R8000 cassette which has 1 more carbon fibre spider.

Largest 3 sprockets of the Ultegra R8000 cassette, 24-27-30T.

This sub-assembly of the R8000 cassette weighs 135 grams.

Largest 3 sprockets of the 105 R7000 cassette, 23-25-28T. The aluminium spider looks similar in construction, but has a less premium surface finishing.

Due to the smaller sprocket sizes, this 105 cassette sub-assembly is lighter at 115 grams. I expect it to weigh the same as Ultegra if it were the same sprocket sizes.

Ultegra R8000 cassette has an additional carbon fibre spider for the 19T and 21T sprockets, which helps to keep the weight low. This is probably the main bulk of the cost difference.

Ultegra uses more premium aluminium spacers (left), instead of the cheaper resin spacer used in 105 (right).

The resin spacer is still of high quality though, as it is made of PPS, and not PA-GF which is used for even cheaper cassettes.

PPS is a compression resistant resin material that is quite costly. It is able to withstand high compression forces without too much deformation. This is important to maintain consistent spacing between sprockets. If you drop the PPS spacer on the ground, it sounds like a metal part, instead of a resin part. Try it yourself if you have the chance!

Ultegra has an aluminium lock ring with pad printing, while 105 uses a cheaper steel lock ring with a sticker on it. Picture shown is of the previous generation, but it applies to the new generation as well.

105 R7000 cassette has a steel lock ring. Probably the same as the 105 5800 lock ring, just with a different sticker.

The steel lock ring weighs 12 grams, while the aluminium one is only 4 grams. That accounts for another portion of the weight difference and cost difference.

Summary of weight and cost difference:
1) Aluminium vs steel lock ring
2) Aluminium vs resin spacers
3) Additional carbon fibre spider on Ultegra cassette to save weight
4) Better looking satin matte surface finishing on the Ultegra sprockets.
5) Better looking anodized surface finishing on the Ultegra aluminium spider.

Note that I did not mention the shifting performance or durability at all, as I expect them to be similar. In fact, some of the sprockets are probably from the same stamping tooling, just with a different sandblasting control and nickel plating finishing.

The step up from 105 to Ultegra is not so big, as the 105 cassette probably costs about SGD 70, and about SGD 110 for the Ultegra cassette. However, the next step up to Dura-Ace is very big, as it can easily cost SGD 300+ for the Dura-Ace cassette.

44 comments:

  1. Are the cassettes interchangeable? Can I upgrade a bike with the 105 R7000 by simply getting the R8000 version when a replacement is required?

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    Replies
    1. Yes they are interchangeable.

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    2. More practically, those with a Ultegra groupset can save 40% and replace their wearable cassette with 105 when their one wears. There really is no difference except the 30 grams. If you are that weight scared just add 15g less sealant to each wheel!

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  2. Pretty sure the inside spider or whatever on the r8000 is not carbon. I have broken two of them since I am a big boy and like to sprint/cyclocross. Its like a plastic thingy not a carbon thingy. Great right up!

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  3. Hi im am thinking to upgrade my crius master d to 56T and also upgrade to 105 gourp set except the crankset.Able to advise which 105 cassette i should choose?
    11-28
    11-30
    11-32
    11-34
    12-24

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suggest getting 11-32T for the wide range.

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  4. Thank you! Your blog is really beneficial thanks for sharing

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  5. Hi sorry can i confirm for rear derailleur should it be gs or ss to install on my crius master d?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Use SS short cage for small wheel bikes. Up to 32T cassette is OK.

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  6. Thanks again! As i was worried when i say this on their website for SS

    Wide compatibility
    RD-SS covers: 11-25T to 11-30T

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's OK, the B tension screw can be adjusted to reach 32T. The chain capacity is also enough since it is a front single drivetrain.

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  7. Thanks again oh may i check do i need a new chain or can i reused my current chain that is running 10speed?

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  8. Hi, thanks a lot for this post! One question: Could I reuse my Ultegra cassette lockring and aluminium spacers for replacement 105 cassettes, such that the only remaining (non-aesthetic) difference would be the spider?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. If the spacer thickness and lock ring thread length are the same, should be interchangeable.

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    2. Yeah, I was hoping that you would know. I will try it out when I have to get my next cassette. Thanks!

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  9. I have reused the lighter Ultegra alloy lock ring on 105 cassettes no problem.

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  10. I have reused the lighter Ultegra alloy lock ring on 105 cassettes no problem.

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  11. do I need shimano 11 speed cassette for shimano 105 r7000 SS rear derailleur? can I use other brand that is cheaper? wondering what is the difference?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Other brand cassettes may not shift as well.

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  12. Can Dahon k3plus b upgraded from 9-speed to 11-speed? Your advice is appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You will need a new rear wheel with a 11 speed freehub body. Else the max you can go is 10 speed with your current rear wheel.

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  13. Is the Ultegra lockring can be use on 105?

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  14. Hy, I have two cassettes CS-HG800-11: 11T-34T (ultegra) and the cs-r7000 (105 cassette). From the 105 cassette the 17 and 19 gear are worn out. Can I use the 17 and 19 gears from the ultegra cassette for the 105 cassette ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What is the ratio of the 105 cassette?
      Check the lettering on the sprockets, there should be something like AO or AW or something. Compare that on the Ultegra with the 105 sprockets.

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    2. The ratio is 11-28 for the 105 cassette
      105 cassette: 17B and 19E
      ultegra: 17E en 19H

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    3. I think it will not match nicely, because the shifting ramps are designed to match the sprockets before and after. So if those are different, all will be different.

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  15. Hi

    May I know if I have existing 3speed cassette on a fnhon retro 16inch, am I able to upgrade cassette to higher speed..like 5 ot 7?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unlikely to work, as you need a rear wheel which may not fit into the frame.

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    2. Thanks for reply, appreciated that, another question..if I wish to add on rear child seat, would a 18 or 16inch wheels bike be able to hold the weight or depending on tyre n rims?

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    3. Wheels should not be an issue as long as it is not those lightweight type with few spokes.

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    4. I see, thank you. Initially I intend to use an old dahon vybe D7 20" .. then due to space constraints in boot, was thinking to get either a fnhon gust ...so for tyres to withstand the weight, rider 80kg, child 15kg, tyre wide makes any difference? Or use wider better?

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    5. Tire width should be at least 35 mm. Means you need to get the disc brake Fnhon Gust. Check out the Fnhon Facebook group for more examples.

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    6. Hi Steve thanks for previous reply

      I am confirming on a fnhon gust with disc brakes. So can I seek ur advise.. I am 75kg, my kid 18kg, and as I wish to add pannier with child seat, so would the 349 16inch gust able to withstand the weight?I read that the bike max is 110kg?

      I am using as pcn leisure with kid. Slow speed and always slow when hump..thanks

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    7. The Gust has a short wheelbase, and the rider weight is almost entirely over the rear wheel. Even when an adult is riding, it's quite easy to wheelie, especially when going up the slope. Therefore if you add a child weight at the rear, it will tip over to the back very easily.
      I have seen people add a child seat to the front, between the seat post and the handle post. That would be much better.

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    8. Gd point Steve. Guess I gonna change options.. would you think fnhon blast frame work better?or fnhon velocity ? Any suggestions of models?

      Setup to put child n child seat total weight probably 18 to 20kg

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    9. Regardless of bike, I don't recommend putting rear child seat since the child is rather heavy. Bike will tilt back too easily.
      I got a cargo bike instead, but most people won't get a dedicated bike to carry kids.
      Suggest checking out how parents send kids to school by observing the school gate area.

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    10. Hi Steve

      Thanks for all your suggestions. Right now, I gotten a btwin bike trailer with 16" wheel set.

      Weight 14kg

      So in this, shouldn't be a problem for any bike right? Can gust still do the job ? Or...fnhon blast or even 3sixty 3speed?

      BTW for our pcn, 3 spd should be sufficient yeah?

      Delete
    11. For bike trailers, strongly suggest to use nutted type of axles. Else quick release axles tend to slip from my experience.
      3 speed OK for PCN, but sometimes there are slopes that will be challenging.

      Delete
  16. nice explanations, it's became clear to me, whenever to chose between R8000 vs R7000

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  17. I have been looking for shimano 105 R7000, seemingly it's became rare items and hard to get..

    ReplyDelete
  18. Hello Steve, recently I got a single speed dahon presto, stock 305. I will be changing to 349 wheelsport rim (default for bike Fri tikit)

    Am I able to also upgrade the speed cog from single to min.3 cog with the wheel set? What's the things to note? Any particular brand I can get with decent budget

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. First you need to check if the frame and fork can accommodate the larger 349 wheels. Most likely would be OK.

      Then, check the rear OLD. If it is a standard 130 mm width, you can use a standard hub and rear wheel. Else if it is narrower, have to consider narrower Brompton rear wheels.

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